Among the sillier amusements of our Congress, this
In today's Washington Post, one can find the story Into the Mix: A Ban on Flag Desecration. It begins:
With the public image of Congress in the tank, House Republicans have vowed to focus on legislation that affects people's everyday lives, especially energy, tax and highway bills. But today the House will take up more red meat for the red states -- a bill "proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."
House Republican Conference Chairman Deborah Pryce (R-Ohio) chuckled when asked if that was a conflict and suggested that anyone who sees one is looking at the world through blue-colored glasses. "You know, this is probably as relevant to people's lives now as any other time," she said, "because of what's going on with Democrats putting everybody in the world before our soldiers and the American safety. They're so worried about what's going on at Guantanamo Bay. And the flag has a place in that debate."
As a "red state" resident, and fully realizing my views are nobody's but mine, my first thought was "Huh? WTF?" With all due respect to Deborah Pryce who, back in my Ohio days I thought was an acceptable representative, the only part of her comment I can agree with is "...this is probably as relevant to people's lives now as at any other time." You know.
And there, the agreement ends. Because, you know, Deborah fails to realize that perhaps it's also as relevant to people's lives as is the color of shoes Paris Hilton chose to wear today. There are a lot of things it could be as relevant as, since the universe of things with zero relevance is enormous.
Heck, it's about as relevant as how many Korans it takes to stop up a Cuban prison toilet.
At least it is to me.
[wik] Well, the House has passed the amendment bill (for something like the fifth time), 286-130. A New York representative had this to say:
"If the flag needs protection at all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents." said Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., whose district includes the site of the former World Trade Center.
He's not my representative, but that doesn't make the reason for his position any weaker, methinks.
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And then there's Randy
And then there's Randy Cunningham (R-Mars): "Ask the men and women who stood on top of the (World) Trade Center. Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."
Oh, FUCK this. That is all.
Oh, FUCK this.
That is all.
How come the allegation of
How come the allegation of mishandling a Koran is enough to spark worldwide outrage, riot, and death; but actually burning an American flag is not only not frowned upon, but cool?
If I desecrate a flag, it's free expression. But if I take a crap on a pile of Korans, it's likely as not a hate crime...?
I don't get it.
Can we have a law stating
Can we have a law stating that flag burning is justification for assault? That would reduce the incidence of flag burning without getting into troublesome free speech issues.
GeekLethal, it's simple...
GeekLethal, it's simple... they hate our freedom.
So, it appears, does the HoR. But just in a different way.
J,
J,
Heh, well of COURSE they do.
But I could use some help in understanding how violating one symbol is more or less offensive than violating another. Does anyone doubt that the flag is as dear to some Americans as the Koran is to Muslims?
See what happens on your local college campus if you have a flag burning party. Outside of raising the ire of some townies, whose opinions students don't care about anyway, very little happens.
Now try and have yourself a Koran burning party. Even advertising for it might be enough to get yourself expelled. At the very least, expect a long talk with your dean, the undying enmity of most of the rest of the student body, the administration putting its grief counselors on overtime, and the trustees emergency-hiring a new dean or director of multicultural sensitivity to implement (yet more) mandatory diversity training.
Like I said, I don't get it.
I think that the Koran abuse
I think that the Koran abuse at Gitmo is a different kettle of fish than your hypothetical Koran burning. People (in the US) should be unhappy with what happened at Gitmo because it is stupid, serves little purpose, and is a strategic blunder. We want the muslims to be more happy with us, not less.
On college campuses, PC rules are enforced, which means that you can't do anything mean to a protected minority. Note that minority has more to do with how much power the group has rather than the actual populations. The answer is to send your kids to a state school where freedom of speech is still a protected right. Then they can burn flags, Korans, and bras whenever they feel like.
Can someone show me the guy who invented identity politics, so I can beat him up?
Paul,
Paul,
Militant Islam will never be happy with us. It wants to destroy us. And that's not hyperbole on my part, but my truest conviction.
Regarding Gitmo specifically, if it takes an interrogator threatening to use each and every sura to sop up his ball sweat in order to get information, go for it. That's how interrogation works best- with mindfucks. Actually *doing* it, you know, the sopping, is something else. Were it me, I'd use a fake book if I had to follow through.
And I agree that it's probably apples and oranges comparing how raggedy-ass undergraduates behave vs what the public expect of professional military people.
But it is comparing likes when we consider the core comparison, of how symbols are understood and valued, and enemies use them to advantage.
There's no good reason for Koran trashing to be uglier than flag burning. But it is. And I don't understand why.
One assumes that the state of
One assumes that the state of being, you know, held prisoner is an important factor here. Outside of the context of involuntary incarceration, I support the right of anyone to do any ol' damn thing they please with a Koran. Burn it, shit on it, shit in it, throw it in shit, whatever. Go nuts.
Ditto the flag. Mine will still fly from my balcony, whatever you choose to do to yours. Hell, you want to waste perfectly good money buying a flag just to burn it, it's your problem, not mine.
Anyone know how many flag burning there have actually been in, say, the last ten years? I suspect somewhere between zero and five, in all likelihood.
Phil,
Phil,
Depends on how you measure it, I'd guess.
If you consider bonnie-blue immolation on a global scale, it must be off the charts. I think burning American flags and jumping up and down around exploded cars are the 2 things that will get Palestinians off their cell phones for any length of time.
Protest season in the fall and spring, both at private and state schools, generates alot of ash as well.
But if you divorce the kooks, both furrin and domestic, from the total number of people who burn flags, I suspect you end with a number close enough to zero to mean, statistically, zero. If all of that were factual, it would follow that only kooks burn flags.
Now, I figgered as much already, but would appreciate some juicy federal grants to fund the proof.
G:
G:
If you divorce the kooks, there might indeed not be anyone to study. But good luck with the grant request, and if I can help in any way to craft the boondoggle, well you just let me know.
As a for instance, apparently, Mookie al Sadr, the seldom-bathed, never-shaved firebrand who spends his time drooling about the infidel occupiers in Iraq (well, that and stinking up whatever room he's in) has taken to using an Israeli flag and a US flag as the doormats on the way into whatever mud-hut he occupies.
My response to this? Whatever. Affects me not at all, not even a raised eyebrow. I'd feel the same if we saw a return in the US to the seldom-bathed, never shaved "radicals" of the sixties who, let's be honest, just wanted a lot of that there free love, but in their spare time, burnt a flag or two. So what? Party on, Garth.
A sense of balance compels me to feel the same about the Koran/Bible/pick-a-holy-book, and the only thing that would give me cause for pause would be if, say, someone wanted to mop up ball sweat with the last remaining copy of the book. And since that ain't gonna happen, I prefer to pretend to be worried about how badly the Astros suck this year.
And no, I'm not going to ask Congress for a solution to that problem, either.
Patton,
Patton,
I hadn't thought about the "last remaning copy" angle. Makes me wonder...
You know, Yale's Beinecke Library has one of Herr Gutenberg's original Bibles...I wonder what the ball-sweat absorption properties of that might be? And I'm pretty confident I could get a grant for THAT...hell, I'd call it art and have the NEA foot the bill.