perfidy

I'll stray from political correctness here and say this: If Islam is NOT the problem, then where are the arrests? The people best situated to take down Al Qaeda, world-wide, are muslims themselves.

If Islam isn't the problem, it can demonstrate that by being part of the solution, in more than just the words of the politicians.

Ross,
I went 'round and 'round on this forever. Is it plausible that the scholarship and erudition funneled through the centuries only to make children who gleefully play with charred body parts? I had to say no. Had to.

But at the same time I agree with you. I think, at least in a public way, influential Muslims, who can be interpreted to speak for large numbers of adherents, should be much more visibly disgusted and helpful about exterminating extremists within their own ranks, as opposed to exterminating pregnant Jewish women.

But in my heart of hearts I just can't hold a belief system responsible for the reprehensible acts of, as I stated, certain goofy fuckers purporting to act on those beliefs.

And it took Gene Simmons to help me see the way.

It helps if you realize that Islam is more of a political movement than a religion. Of course, I view religions as mostly political entities anyway, so I don't single Islam out.

I think Islam is correctly criticized for not taking care of its own back yard.

Islam was once purely a religion. Since the Shah of Iran was overthrown and replaced with Ayatollahs and country placed under Sharia, muslim religious law, Islam has become a political movement. The political movement that is Islam is growing rapidly through the Madrassa schools and through an near infinite bunch of political Imam yahoos.

Until this particular war is over (Islam v. The Evil West) is over I don't see it returning to being simply a religion any decade soon.

Well, we have to bear in mind that presently, certain aspects or leaders of Islam desperatley want to kill us.

But in a broader sense, and a history that spans 13-odd centuries, the religion is bigger than a relative few individuals.

And, with Bernard Lewis still fresh in my mind, I agree with your and Ross' assessment of Islam as a political entity, in large part because there is only one law, Allah's, as revealed through his prophet. Therefore, parliaments and presidents would be not only superfluous to Allah's perfect law and will, but in opposition to it. And so, bad.

But.

We all know there are strict adherents, weird sub cults, and reasonable people in perhaps all religions. I believe Islam is no different. But as I said earlier, I do wish Muslims were a little more enthusiastic about ridding themselves of nutters.

Islam is highly political _because_ of "Sharia Law". When your behavior and life are regulated by a religion, backed by the force of government, it's not just a religion.

"the religion is bigger than a relative few individuals."

The chorus of silence that followed Nick Berg's murder leads me to believe political Islam has millions of adherents and sympathizers.

While we're on the nutters, we as a nation should look into lessening the political influence of our own brand of fundamentalists who are looking for the second coming and Armageddon and all that apocalyptica. We have a free country and Americans are free to believe as they wish. I'm cool with the nuttery, s'long's the nuttery stays in church where it belongs.

I'm with Thomas Jefferson on this one. He was dead right.

Islam and Sharia Law are political, but probably no more than any other religion. (side note: do you folks know that there is a lawsuit pending to make Sharia Law an accepted framework for arbitration? Apparently, I think it's NY State allows arbitration under certain religious frameworks, i.e. Talmudic law. Yes, I think I heard that on NPR too... now hand me a beer, I'm still at work.)

As for influential Muslims... well rich Saudis like Osama bin Laden didn't think that the dominant Wahabism of Saudi Arabia was extreme enough. So I'm not sure what all influential Muslims are saying with their money. After all, a lot of them funded the schools of extremist Islam that gave rise to the Taliban and their ilk.

There's a blog I read today that thinks religious groups that advocate one political position or another should lose their tax exempt status (I assume that makes 501(c)(3) status). I don't know if I support that position, but GP, let's get one thing straight, the 'nuttery' isn't staying inside the four walls of a religious building, and I can't say that it's a bad thing. Just look at Quakerism for example. Without the tenets of faith supporting them, many Quakers would not have been abolitionists in the 1800's. Many of them would not have pressed the movement for conscientious objector status without their fundemental religious belief in non-violence. The 'nuttery' of Quakers led them to join in the civil rights movement in the 20th century. Religious 'nutters' like Mother Theresa are not to be discounted. For there can be true good that comes out of a purity of spirit and a servant's heart. Mind you I choose those words carefully and quite on purpose.

Religion is a tool for good, for evil, for politics, for money. I'm sure if you dig deep, ever religion has the black mark of zealtory upon it. (e.g. Quakers who kept slaves, Catholics and the Inquisition, etc. etc.)

found it. it was Mr. Green on May 14th at 4:35pm. I can't seem to get HTMLtags to work today, so just cut and paste: [url=http://mrgreen.mu.nu/]http://mrgreen.mu.nu/[/url]

Ross: There's a good three-part series over at Obsidian">http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/]Obsidian Wings called "Silence and the Moderate Muslim" that discusses what you address here and is worth reading. I don't agree with everything said there -- in fact, I explicitly disagree with much of it -- but it's worth a look.

My personal alternate post title is "Mecca Rock City."